End Game / End of War discussion

BGD contacted Mobros last night and these are the terms they asked for.

Hi Dave,
Thanks for contacting me. I just spoke with Van about this. Our biggest concern is that you have proven time and again that your word cannot be trusted. We propose the following: a 30 day NAP between MLP/RumR and Ha-Ha. After the NAP has expired, you will agree not to pillage any MLP or RumR player with a total score lower than 50K. There is no expiration to that term. You will post this pledge in the war thread. If you break your word, MLP/RumR have the right to attack you (multi- or otherwise) and you will stand on your own. If any other players aside from MLP/RumR or you show up in a CR or if anyone else in Ha-Ha attacks us, we would then treat it as an act of war.

Dave responded with...
They are talking about it now, as we have the whole council thing it take's 10 people to change a light bulb... I'll let you know whats up, when I know, & you have Rumr on this too ? Right it covers all 3 allies. Pac MLP & Rumr.

I have opened dialogue with both MLP and RumR. I have heard nothing about PAC and will post my discussions here.


-brbdc

PS. I noticed we are fighting alot of RumR but not alot of MLP.

I wrote:
I understand your position but the promised pledge would breach our policy of no-multi attacks. We are talking about it now. I just want to keep this channel open to keep dialogue ongoing.

Mobros wrote:
Well, multi-attacks won't be an issue IF Dave adheres to his pledge. We are hoping the threat of such a penalty will keep him in line. I don't think merely penalizing him with something like returning resources as compensation would be an adequate deterrent, it needs to be something significant.

Caesar proposed. a 15 day NAP with MLP only and a 25k minimum score for pillaging. We will negoiate seperately with RumR.

Those terms aren't really that bad, there are tons of other alliances to pillage, and it's only 30 days.

Besides, players under 50k, that's not a big deal either, they are still new. I understand they may have lots of goods, plus, the under 50k is only for BGD right? Which means if he finds a really good targer under 50k TS he could pass it to one of our smaller players or someone who may need the goods. It's not limiting his pillaging THAT much.

BTW, I don't suggest we meet there terms, we can play ball. I'm just saying if those are like "mutual terms' they aren't too bad.

latest from Mobros.
Make it a 35K TS minimum for Dave and we'd be on board. (It's a one player difference, based on our current membership.) The other conditions regarding Dave include posting his pledge in the war thread and our ability to retaliate against him without interference should he break his word. Also, we won't officially settle with you until you have also worked out terms with RumR, as we're in this together. Thanks! Mobros

Thoughts? I think I would avoid making BGD post and make it a pledge from us an alliance on BGDs behalf or something like that. I don't like the not settling with them together. We could try and settle with RumR now but not MLP just to let us focus more?

I can't seem to understand why we even started talks? We're doing good against both MLP and RumR. Yes RumR gives us more to do, but I haven't seen MLP winning a big battle yet. We shouldn't meet any of their terms. Dave can pillage everyone he wants and so can everybody else. If they want the war to end, they should apologise and end the war. Its that simple.

If they decide to end it, we can either decide if we re-declare or not. But we shouldn't even be starting about meeting terms.

I still think we should fight until they decide to close it, or at least until we lose combat initiative. And I have several reasons to do so.

1. Right now, with the victory getting closer (not attained, just getting closer) in 37:37, we have troops that will be chillin there with nothing to do, and members who would not appreciate the wind being taken out of their sails before they see any good action. Communism, ekk, and a few other semi-active fighters with massive militaries need a target, and the war gives everyone that.

2. We've gained a lot from the war. We've whittled down our probation list, from all this activity. It's helped us gel together after the merger. Our activity level is pretty high now. We got people in chat, and brigades organized/organizing and working together. Our non-military players are starting to get familiar with the combat system as well. Nothing like a baptism of fire. And what did we lose? Some goods, some resources, some citizens. Easily replaceable. And we've dealt damage too. I think we've dealt them more damage than they can afford so far.

3. Plus, we took them when they had time to prepare for us, it being their DOW and all, and beat them in the decisive battles. Now that we're prepared, and have troops rolling I don't think we should stop. Like I said initially, we have the initiative now. Once the big battles are over, or even before that, we should start pursuit and containment. And pillaging. I guarantee you if we keep pounding at them we will be able to find enough pillaging targets to make the war worth it, resource-wise.

So yes, I say we keep going.

The counter offer was to see how badly trhey want to end this.. Obviously they want to.. I say we kick the crap out of them until they decide to end it close the DOW on our terms.. Which should be what...?

Alright. I will stall peace talks with MLP and see how desperate RumR. Lets kick the crap out of them. Its time for "double rainbow"

Yea, I wasn't pro on ending the war btw, I was just saying if we go for terms those weren't that bad.

Rw, we gotcha. I was just doing what Ceasar asked and reported my findings.

I vote no on ending the war. They are weak and until they come kissing our asses they will claim the victory. Nothing Short of them kissing our asses on the boards with a formal apology by 'X' amount of their largest players in both alliances should be enough. This is as we have the initiative. if things change our terms should change accordingly. To the victors come the spoils.

I think that right now we should not end the war as it appears we have the upper hand. I do think that maybe we COULD entertain thoughts of ending it to keep the dialogue open though. I also think that whenever we do decide to end this that we should allow them to save some face because we never know when we might need their help someday against another foe. You are right shastar when you say to the victors come the spoils but letting them keep some dignity in defeat could make us look all the better as an alliance.

I don't know MLP from Moses so I'm fine with allowing them to save face. I cant say that I Have much trust for RumR. They've not shown a propensity for being particularly above board. Yes I'm being prejudiced and we have our own players who play fast and loose in our own camp. BUT I do not see much chance in RumR siding with us anytime soon until we beat them down like Ho holding out chedda from their Pimp Daddies that that are. I do agree that in most cases youl eave someone their dignity. But there are times when we need to show a cruel ruthlessness to those that betray us. Us Hetre half have long talked about wanting to bitch slap RumR. I Think in the way they jumped us and frankly are using MLP as intermediaries in negotiation shows at least to me how little they hold us in regard. I don't have a problem allowing MLP out of the mix. I don't think we should so lightly allow RumR to walk away with their Dignity. Considering Certain among them left Spy members behind, after stripping a certain percentage away from our ranks. These are merely my thoughts. I support the majority vote no matter which way it falls. Also considering I've not supplied much to this war effort its easier for me to say lets keep their feet to the fire as I've not sacrificed much yet. So on that note the tone of their surrender I will accept however is decided. I just wanted to get my thoughts out there. -Shastar

peace may be nice, i just used up all my sulfur supply for a 10th town upgrade....lol

I finally contacted Lost Souls and MissJazz from RumR. They wouldnt initially give me separate terms to end the war but after I proposed that we were going to end it with MLP and continue with them, they suggested a 90 day NAP. It seems that Ceasar sent Lostsouls some mean messages which really pissed him off.

why are we still talking about this? why would we do anything like they are sugesting? The hammers I rember would just keep fighting untill they knew we were no push overs. I say stop all peace talks and lets push on. most of there major players are strugling. Just hold off and they will start begging to end this war then they will end the dow. Just watch and see.

Buck: we are not looking for peace but to keep the pulse of our enemy. We are trying to see how they currently feel about the war and how desperate or war weary they are. Thats all. There are no peace talks.

brbdc wrote:I finally contacted Lost Souls and MissJazz from RumR. They wouldnt initially give me separate terms to end the war but after I proposed that we were going to end it with MLP and continue with them, they suggested a 90 day NAP. It seems that Ceasar sent Lostsouls some mean messages which really pissed him off.

Yes Yes I did.. he needed to be put in his place like a good lap dog that he is....

These are my kind of terms right here.

"Perhaps instead of kicking BGD.......Maybe kick Creamaid (Your alliance WALL, self described by creamaid) and 10 MLP farms for BGD and we can call a truce."

http://board.us.ikariam.com/index.php?page=Thread&postID=1075355

Maybe include creamaid's posse? Vae Victis!

The point being is what they are asking us to do, abandon one of our own who is actively contributing to the alliance, is not in any way, shape, or form allowable. And our starting point of Happily Hammering out any kind of peace must be with them doing the same thing.

nowhale wrote:These are my kind of terms right here.

"Perhaps instead of kicking BGD.......Maybe kick Creamaid (Your alliance WALL, self described by creamaid) and 10 MLP farms for BGD and we can call a truce."

http://board.us.ikariam.com/index.php?page=Thread&postID=1075355

Maybe include creamaid's posse? Vae Victis!

The point being is what they are asking us to do, abandon one of our own who is actively contributing to the alliance, is not in any way, shape, or form allowable. And our starting point of Happily Hammering out any kind of peace must be with them doing the same thing.

I agree! I may not agree with BGD'S approach to how small of a player he pillages but by doing what he's done has brought alot of unity to our alliance in which we needed.
We needed this as a brand new merged alliance in theta. The HOF CR is great publicity and we still may face other challenges but atleast BGD found a way to get RUMR involved when we had tried for a month to get them to fight us. I think it's good to have talks thru out the war but premature to end this. We need to let theta know that we will fight longer than our opponent and given alittle more time LS will cave. Surrendering BGD is not an option.....PERIOD. BGD should be taken out of the equation and let them know they are talking to the whole HA HA alliance regardless of their conditions and to make their conditions relevant to the whole alliance otherwise what the hell have we been fighting for if we don't stand with BGD.
If we do decide on terms and BGD decides differently then we'll deal with it internally but not on MLP/RUMR terms. My 2 Cents!

Let's just keep the discussion going, oh & the War !