Lack of support??

Based on the recent events occurring within the past few months involving RUMR, BGD and now MLP I felt the need to make this post. I do not mean to come across as attacking anyone or "bitching" anyone out, so if I do then I apologize in advance. Dave, I do not personally know you nor do I know you in game that well here but I have seen that you do like to pillage. That is all well and good here but a trend that I have been noticing is that when the other alliances get fed up with you attacking them and mount a counter attack, you come to us to help bail you out. This has happened twice in the past few months. During the RUMR attacks, there was little to no support in fighting them back from anyone. There were several attempts to involve the entire alliance to start attacking RUMR and to draw them into a war which failed miserably. Now I don't know if you were pillaging MLP before RUMR or during that problem, but apparently they have had enough and have decided to do something about this. According to the circulars that are flying around, you are getting a lot of support from people to get them off of your island and that is a good thing but I have to wonder where these people were at during the RUMR incident. Everyone who is supporting you now may or may not have been trying to pick fights, I do not know this but I am sure we can find this out. If not, I have to wonder what has changed and why is there so much support now when there was none before? I support defending my alliance mates if they are in trouble, BUT I do have a problem supporting them when they are the ones who keep causing trouble and then appear to move on to cause more trouble once they start to get help. I am not saying that is going to happen, it just appears to be that way with the RUMR incident. I am a builder and peaceful by nature so I may be biased when it comes to war, but I will defend my friends and my alliance mates when warranted. I left an alliance over in Zeta because of a person that constantly led us to war and we were bailing them out all of the time, wasting valuable resources and gold and I do not want to do this again. If I am requested I will step down from council and if asked I can leave this alliance because I do not want to cause trouble. I put this here because I do now wish to air council's dirty laundry in public but I am not afraid to do so.

NO Comment at this Time.

I was right there ready and willing during the RumR stuff.

The problem wit hthe RumR stuff is no one ever actually said go.

For like a month we went on and on about getting ready for RumR, but in the end no one ever gave the go ahead. IT was just constant messages to get ready, some go t ready, some got ready and then got unready after no giving the green light.

The MLP is getting support because i did what Grim should have done to get the ball rolling on RumR. Instead of waiting for someone to come rolling in and say ok you have the go ahead to repel that force i went a head and did it.

I personally blame the lack of effort in regards to RumR on Grim. People volunteered and gave him their targets but he never said go.

The way I understood it true, was that almost no one communicated with Grim on that matter. There was not enough people helping and talking to him to give him the go and when the order was issued to go no one did. I could be wrong on this matter because I don't know all of what went on, I can only say what I read

I was ready for the RUMr stuff. There was just no RUMr folks within 6 islands of me. I told grim that I was able to defend anyone that had a close target but that none were close enough for me to hit.

Part of the problem here for me at least is distance. My army is 8+ hours away from the action. My Navy is 16 hours. I spent 2 million gold in 3 days, a day and a half of it was travel. I got there only to sit on my thumbs for 8 hours and then be told never mind.

I to was ready for RumR, but like true said nobody gave a Go. Now with True being a good friend of mine and him being in a battle, I think the most normal thing to do is, sent help.

My general score already dropped to 3k over the night and I wont rebuild it unless I know for sure we're actually going to pound some pony ass.

How could you even blame this on me, True? Prior to my brief seperation to the alliance I was given the general position on a Friday night. I rallied people to the cause for the weekend and come monday nobody was willing to do anything. I'm not knocking anyones reason, merely defending myself as I do not feel the blame is mine to burden. Your welcome to believe and paint me as a scapegoat but the truth is I had very little support. It was mere days of me being in a position of leadership asfar as military goes. Kind of harsh words for not knowing the whole side of the story.

Furthermore, have I not been balls to the wall in this war? I've given this alliance two foot holes into areas. Defending an almost lost battle at Mels so the alliance can make a statement. Between defending everyone I could, engaging when able and facilitating activities. Not to mention giving up my weekends two weeks in a row in the spirit of the cause your placement of blame on my character is unjust.

Hell you want to talk about lack of support. There was a large scale battle in an area where I purposely placed a town near countless towns of Rumr for alliance action. Yesterday I posted the incoming naval ships, the incoming troops including my availability to stay focused on this engagement was limited due to work in the morning. They sent a 2200 naval fleet against Death & Chaos, not to mention the 10k in ground troops I counted. I fought my ground against fifteen of their members for the course of a 16 hour battle with no help whatsoever. Reducing my military from 34k to 4k and shooting me from the shadows of the defensive score list to the 2nd place. You seriously want to place blame?

How did the time/date stamp get so far out of whack? Now. As to this issue. I personally find there is an overall lack of supporting each other. We are still playing as cliques. We are still talking in theres, mine, instead of ours. We came together as one alliance. I take a fair amount of blame for being so slow in trying to impliment my plans. But has anyone offered a hand? or to check up on why things are taking so long? I mention this because its a long line of us as a whole not working together. of us not communicating we are horrible at communication. We fuck around and ramble and talk about and bullshit but bottom line we don't make make timely decisions, ever. we don't keep clear lines of communications and again I take some of the blame as I am muddying the waters something fierce. We need to get more people involved in policy and make sure that the plans that we decide are executed and done so with consequenses for fucking it up. We cant blame only Grim, we cant blame only Dave. nor can we blame CA or Nowhale because the bottom line we are playing like 88 individuals not one Alliance. and until we pull our heads out of our asses and become one band with one sound we are just going to be playing shit music. **PERIOD**

First of all, Grim, True's post was before both DoW's. We have seen what you have done for us, warping towns twice, to combat, as well as fighting their fighters on your own.

If anyone should take the blame for that earlier issue with being slow against RumR, I should. If I had said go, it would've gotten the ball rolling, but I never did, when I clearly could. Instead, we waited too long, and let the opportunity go. Well, now we got another one.

Shastar is very right about that one though. The problem is that RumR is getting smarter, and avoiding big battles. I think what we really need is a change of strategy. Instead of hitting them head on, and destroying their troops, we should get people to find their farms, which is what started this in the first place, and farm them out of the game, or at least out of RumR/MLP. We never really did any river-ing, we just won one big bonfire, and decided to call it a day.

Again, I am taking responsibility for that. I took time off fighting to build embassies. I didn't really get started rebuilding my army until yesterday. I was dragging my feet myself, and that allowed the opponent to regain some, if not most, of the initiative, especially with the attack on grim. Once my army is rebuilt, I'm off to hit grim's warper.

well said!

I'm well aware of the timestamp, that True said that before the DOW. But realize this is the first opportunity I have had since things slowed down for me in catching up to the forums. It does not change the fact that an attack on my character was made, nor the fact that it was left hanging there without being addressed till my comment. The right thing to do would have to comment on it prior to this being made an issue.

As I said at the time of his accusation I had the general position a mere day or two at most and I did rally people but there was not a lot of people willing for various reasons. My ending comparison statement was to show example if anyone wanted to place blame for lack of support I also had ample reason but you don't see me calling names in public view or deflaming someones character where everyone can see.

This group is only accessable by a few people I've held off adding anyone to the leadership forum until its decided what level is required for access to here so this isn't publicly airing laundry this is as behind close doors as something can get without it being one on one. Some personality conflicts do need to be brought before the council so we know whats going on between people. Again I think the issue with this conversation's point is that we are all kind of waiting for someone else to make the final Yes/No. instead of everyone coming together and making a final decision to Go/NO Go. and then sticking behind that course of action until it either runs its course or we come back to make another decision to make a change of action. This failure to follow through is what is killing us.

Well said Grim, and i do apologize for speaking without knowing the whole story.

you should not apologize for that. Thats the reason we are councle. what some may not see, another one may. you dont knw if you dont ask. There has been alot, i mean alot of mail this past month and its very hard to keep up on all activities. We are the councle for this reason.

buck26 wrote:you should not apologize for that. Thats the reason we are councle. what some may not see, another one may. you dont knw if you dont ask. There has been alot, i mean alot of mail this past month and its very hard to keep up on all activities. We are the councle for this reason.

So Buck your saying the job of the council is to wrongfully attack someones character and offer no course of appology because after all this is the council chamber and their job?

I beg to differ good sir. While the term has not been given a definition atleast in my eyes. This is how and what I see the council as. The job of the council is to offer perspective and view. Discuss issues that need to be discussed. Then to move together as one, implementing changes as needed for the best interest of the alliance.

Just because you have a certain view about an issue. At no point does this warrant someone to stain someones character without fair reason. This fair reason has not been established. Even then it's more in the best interest of an alliance to share where they could have made improvements and work from there instead of placing personal blame and attacking the building blocks of any alliance which is the members. Something of which Shaster pointed out in differing words.

true_illusion wrote:Well said Grim, and i do apologize for speaking without knowing the whole story.

Your appology is accepted, and appreciated.

Grim, I think because i dont make 9 page letters, what I say can be inturprated in many ways. Im saying we are the councle, if we see an issue or what could be an issue we should not be affarid to say something (like red neck did) no matter if we think it will hurt someone elses feelings or not. Yes he did go a little far not knowing the whole story but he thought there was an issue that needed some attention. So when i wrote that what I was tring to get out is dont be sorry or be scared for brining up an issue or potential issue if you think there is one. Not about the personal attacks. I think he is a good man for appologising about the bashing which is a lesson learned on how to wright your concerns. Sorry that my short statment was inturprated wrong. I guess I just leave things to bold.

Well done.. Buck thanks...

GREAT POST, great conversation and great dialog. )

Several things I would like to touch on.

It's no mystery that BGD probably farmed some players that really were too small to be farmed. Vanetia isn't exactly wrong on her point. If you have been reading my post on the game board though, she doesn't have an exclusion to come from another world and recv an exception with the noob players that are not in a real alliance like our own.

We have forged a great alliance together but for some reason there is an air of resentment. I have tried hard to bridge us all together. I think that with this many strong personalities and exp'd players this is probably the way it just is. I feel that BGD has done our alliance a great service into introducing us as HA HA to Theta. He may have had to take a cheesy course to get things pronounced by going thru MLP to get to rumr but he got the job done. We all know that we missed the opportunity with rumr for almost a month. It was alot of factors that caused things to go wrong and we've learned alot but we are starting to merge together and communicate better.

We all can find each others faults and flaws but as an alliance we still have to stick together and help each other dispite our flaws. We have to contnue to work things out. We can't expect a merge and things just fall into place perfectly. It takes time. In retrospect we all kept calling for a war and we proved to ourselves that as an alliance, we really were ill prepared. BUT we are getting the job done and doing it in the middle of a 2 front war. Thats some awesome shit! We are 10 times more organized and coordinated than when we first started. We may have a long ways to go but we've come along way!

I know I've made a thousand mistakes. But am I really that bad of a member that my support can't outweigh my mistakes.

When BGD lost his army a few weeks ago he was really deflated by it.
I sent him a ton of PM's to help him feel better and look at him now. He's rebuilt and back into the mix of things.
During that time is when Grim took over and although he had the #1 military, he either couldnt get enough support or every1 wasn't as commited to getting things started until the DOW's were dropped. He didnt have the exp that he has now and we've all become more active and involved supporting one another better.

With the amount of CR's that we've posted I feel we have alot more prestige as an alliance. With the point of this post, BGD will have to raise the bar on the size of the players he decides to pillage. ) I know that I would be less inclined to support another war for pillaging noob players out of a game. Esp alot of noob members out of the same alliance. I'm just saying. )

The Gen's spot is a tough GIG. To denounce a member until you've held it is like a arm chair quarterback. Alot of us would do this or that from hindsight.
But getting things started in a forward momentum is tough. You have some that send early and have to wait and waste resources and then you have to make a decision as to if you have enough just to start a campaign. It's a tough GIG. Ask for the spot and you'll see )

I think we should move past blaming and calling members out continually looking backwards from this point and start addressing ideas from this point forward.

I look forward to any and all comments to my post ;o)

Thanks Guys!

clap clap clap... great post.

So we all good now?

Summary is, while in that particular instance it wasn't completely the fault of anyone in particular, the council chambers are a place to discourse about what issues you may see in the alliance, and that if it includes toe stepping, so be it.

Can we lock this now, and pledge not to fight amongst ourselves again?

i dont see why not